I think this is a place to start. It is an easy way to get our words to our intended audience (the administration, faculty, and students). I don't think we should turn down any vehicle to make our words heard.

@Rory- I seem to have misunderstood the extent to which you were criticizing the suggestion. There does not seem to be much disagreement between us.

-- RobLaser - 15 Feb 2010

@Rob- I think you're confusing the necessity to change a problem with differences regarding how to do it. I also think you are addressing a different problem than Alex did-- my understanding was that Alex was proposing this idea in an effort to change what professors do, not to just let the students know about what happens. And my point is that if we are trying to change what professors do, this seems a rather passive way to do it. As I mentioned, do professors change in response to student evaluations? And more importantly, does administration put any pressure on them to give feedback to us? If we really want to change the system, we have to attack it directly, not just by telling each other what we already know. We need to change how classes, and probably the whole curriculum, are structured. I'm not at all sure how to do that, all I'm saying is adding another box to class evals doesn't seem like the best or most effective way to do it.

Also, I'm not sure how much benefit they would have even for us, especially during first year when we can't pick our classes anyways. Don't we know that we're not going to get feedback just by the nature of law school itself? Until that changes, I'm not sure how much there will be to say. The eval will say 'you take one test and don't get any feedback on it', we will say 'yes I know it's like almost every other class I could have told you that.' So we need to figure out how to change the norm, not just talk about it. But like I said, it also couldn't hurt anything, especially if some professors do change in response to evaluations, so I would support it regardless-- just not as the only way to solve the problem.

-- RorySkaggs - 15 Feb 2010

I think the value here is in exactly what you downplayed Rory: future students would have a better idea of what to expect from professors. Any additional knowledge students can have about these mysterious tendencies would be a benefit to them. There is even a possibility that a student who is armed with the knowledge can realize that certain professors need to be pushed much more during the semester in order to give the type of feedback they want. I think to sit back and say that because these professors publish articles we are powerless to change what goes on in our education is lying down. We can certainly have a realistic view of things, but we shouldn't let that deter us from even trying to be lawyers...aka make change using words. These reviews are exactly the type of vehicles that allow us to take action; they are publications of our words to our target audience. If we can't believe we can make change with them, we are in serious trouble as young lawyers.

-- RobLaser - 14 Feb 2010

Interesting idea, but I question what value it would really have. Is there any evidence professors do anything with the evaluations they get now? That their supervisors look at them or do anything with them? If they don't care about what we're saying now, or at least don't change in response to it, I don't see how rating their feedback level will make a difference any more than any other complaints (or compliments) do. I'm especially skeptical because it seems that all this would do is congratulate those profs who do give feedback, but would not hurt those who don't, because the norm is not to. If the school doesn't require (or even encourage) any feedback other than grades, the school is not going to punish a prof for us telling them what they already know-- that we don't get feedback. Another problem is that profs are hired and kept around based on what they publish/the work they do outside of class, not if they are particularly good teachers, so I don't know if the school really cares how much feedback we're getting in the first place.

On the other hand, it couldn't hurt, and would at least give future students an idea of what to expect. And like you said, it would not involve too much work to implement.

-- RorySkaggs - 13 Feb 2010

a.k.a. Grading Professors So WE Get Better Feedback

Students grade professors through course evaluation forms. Maybe we can use these forms to get better feedback from our professors. (The irony that the feedback we give them is already way more instructive than the feedback we receive is not lost on me.) Anyway, through the evaluation forms we give feedback on many different aspects of the professor's performance, but we don't give feedback on how good their feedback to us is. Maybe if we successfully lobby for a "rate your professor's feedback" box on the evaluation forms, we can begin to establish feedback as an important part of a professor's job.

Changing the forms might be a good first step in changing how professor's think about their responsibility. Getting a "feedback given to student" question on the form does not require the university to expend any resources or change any policies. My hunch is, however, that professors are adverse to getting negative evaluations, and after a semester of getting low ratings in the "feedback given to student" category they will evolve. I hope the evolution will not be in the form of a faculty resolution to strip the new category from the evaluations. (Whether cynics or optimists change the world is a question for a different discussion.)

The first hurdle is that most of the little feedback we get comes from exam grades and, if we are lucky, exam comments one month after we fill out the evaluation forms. I have talked to Dean Schizer and he emphasized that it is important to have students fill out the forms before finals, because the response rate decreases if the forms are given after finals. I suggested to him having two rounds of evaluation:

Round I: Evaluations just like they are now. Neither the timing or questions change.

Round II: After the semester, students can answer three additional questions on the quality of the feedback they got during the semester, the quality of the final exam, and whether they got a grade they expected.

The Dean responded quickly -- and I give him credit for doing so -- writing "I will pass on your thought to colleagues who help to set these policies." I am sure he is very busy, so I do not expect anything to happen unless someone pushes it along.

If other students are interested, maybe we can develop this idea further and try to build momentum.

What do you think?

-- AlexAsen - 12 Feb 2010

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