OnWhyIAmReluctantToTalkInClass 7 - 03 Feb 2009 - Main.JonathanFriedman
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I can’t quite figure this out. | | But to me, it is very interesting to observe how our problems can not only cause certain decision-making processes, but infiltrate them as well. That is particularly worrisome and requires more attention and introspection as to why do we truly have these feelings and what can be done about them. Only then can we begin to use a free form analysis that is also free in its application.
-- KeithEdelman - 02 Feb 2009 | |
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Proposition: This fear is the result of the environment created by the large lecture-style class.
I was not nearly as reticent last semester, in my ~30 person Contracts class seated at a large conference table, as I was and am in the 50-90 person lecture halls.
Has the growth of the size of law school classes had a detrimental effect on the per student quality of education?
Is there a stigma against “gunning,” when the setting is more intimate? Were it not for huge classes, one would not have to "gun" for the professor's attention.
Does the fear of error decrease in small classes as well? The cost of public humiliation decreases as you become more familiar with your colleagues.
I also hypothesize that students are more willing to volunteer to assist a classmate who is unclear on a topic that the rest of the class has mastered (read: collaborate) when that deficiency can be admitted without the fear of public scoff, and being inquisitive doesn't mean being pesky.
Unfortunately the economics of law school operations seem to weigh against any solution to this problem in regards to 1L classes, but I look forward to upper level seminars.
-- JonathanFriedman - 03 Feb 2009 | |
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OnWhyIAmReluctantToTalkInClass 6 - 02 Feb 2009 - Main.KeithEdelman
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I can’t quite figure this out. | | The communal benefit factors might make class participation more rational, and make clamming up during class and asking questions privately the more self-gratifying action. It seems more apt to describe the economic, rational, cost-benefit analysis as symptomatic of the problems we've been talking about in class, namely the need to be certain, the need to quantify, etc.
-- MolissaFarber - 01 Feb 2009 | |
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I believe that not only is the cost-benefit analysis symptomatic of the thirst for certainty, but a part of the framework. On the "cost" side, fears of continued abstract exploration weigh down a desire to speak. "Benefits" might include the desire for an answer (as you all have noted). There is list is likely endless.
But to me, it is very interesting to observe how our problems can not only cause certain decision-making processes, but infiltrate them as well. That is particularly worrisome and requires more attention and introspection as to why do we truly have these feelings and what can be done about them. Only then can we begin to use a free form analysis that is also free in its application.
-- KeithEdelman - 02 Feb 2009 | |
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OnWhyIAmReluctantToTalkInClass 5 - 02 Feb 2009 - Main.MolissaFarber
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I can’t quite figure this out. | | -- AlexHu - 31 Jan 2009 | |
< < | That's an interesting way to analyze the situation, Alex. I agree with Leslie that it seems to look at the question from an individualistic perspective, i.e., I need an answer to my question. It doesn't address the potential communal benefits of class participation. For example, something I say may inspire someone else to make a point that wouldn't have occurred to them had I not spoken. Someone might feel more comfortable speaking because I say something so stupid that I've set the bar low for them.
The communal benefit factors might make class participation more rational, and make clamming up during class and asking questions privately the more self-gratifying action. It seems more apt to describe the economic, rational, cost-benefit analysis as symptomatic of the problems we've been talking about in class, namely the need to be certain, the need to quantify, etc.
-- MolissaFarber - 01 Feb 2009
| | Chicken or Egg?
When asked (and nobody asks) what my secret power is, I claim the power of invisibility. So you will not have noticed that I, too, sit mute through nearly every class. With that said, it seems to me that your list omits one clear benefit of voluntary participation: engaging in an exchange of ideas for their own sake, or because it's interesting (or was formerly) to communicate with our peers and thereby to investigate our own thoughts about society, justice, etc. What an idea! Speaking (and listening to others speak) in order to communicate! The problem seems to be that law school is not a community of scholars, but one of distilled individualistic striving. A competitive environment makes openness and trusting communication difficult. So one question might be: who has created this environment? And one obvious answer might be: who else, if not we ourselves? | | Bring on the cost-benefit analysis (and another round for the house).
-- LeslieHannay - 01 Feb 2009 | |
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That's an interesting way to analyze the situation, Alex. I agree with Leslie that it seems to look at the question from an individualistic perspective, i.e., I need an answer to my question. It doesn't address the potential communal benefits of class participation. For example, something I say may inspire someone else to make a point that wouldn't have occurred to them had I not spoken. Someone might feel more comfortable speaking because I say something so stupid that I've set the bar low for them.
The communal benefit factors might make class participation more rational, and make clamming up during class and asking questions privately the more self-gratifying action. It seems more apt to describe the economic, rational, cost-benefit analysis as symptomatic of the problems we've been talking about in class, namely the need to be certain, the need to quantify, etc.
-- MolissaFarber - 01 Feb 2009
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OnWhyIAmReluctantToTalkInClass 4 - 01 Feb 2009 - Main.MolissaFarber
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I can’t quite figure this out. | |
-- AlexHu - 31 Jan 2009 | |
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That's an interesting way to analyze the situation, Alex. I agree with Leslie that it seems to look at the question from an individualistic perspective, i.e., I need an answer to my question. It doesn't address the potential communal benefits of class participation. For example, something I say may inspire someone else to make a point that wouldn't have occurred to them had I not spoken. Someone might feel more comfortable speaking because I say something so stupid that I've set the bar low for them.
The communal benefit factors might make class participation more rational, and make clamming up during class and asking questions privately the more self-gratifying action. It seems more apt to describe the economic, rational, cost-benefit analysis as symptomatic of the problems we've been talking about in class, namely the need to be certain, the need to quantify, etc.
-- MolissaFarber - 01 Feb 2009 | |
Chicken or Egg? |
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OnWhyIAmReluctantToTalkInClass 3 - 01 Feb 2009 - Main.LeslieHannay
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I can’t quite figure this out. | | -- AlexHu - 31 Jan 2009
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> > | Chicken or Egg?
When asked (and nobody asks) what my secret power is, I claim the power of invisibility. So you will not have noticed that I, too, sit mute through nearly every class. With that said, it seems to me that your list omits one clear benefit of voluntary participation: engaging in an exchange of ideas for their own sake, or because it's interesting (or was formerly) to communicate with our peers and thereby to investigate our own thoughts about society, justice, etc. What an idea! Speaking (and listening to others speak) in order to communicate! The problem seems to be that law school is not a community of scholars, but one of distilled individualistic striving. A competitive environment makes openness and trusting communication difficult. So one question might be: who has created this environment? And one obvious answer might be: who else, if not we ourselves?
How soon did we begin to learn that law school was a cutthroat, hellish trial? (When did you learn the word “gunner”?) Admitted students day? LSAT exam day? While browsing Top-law-schools.com? The study of law is famed for the harsh social, cultural and emotional environment in which it takes place. Anticipating this, we have zealously sought to assimilate as quickly as possible, and in the process I suspect that we ourselves have created the environment that we were told to expect. (Who is the class?)
Somewhere close to the root of the particular tension that characterizes the law classroom is, I suspect, the reason that we are here at all. If the big payoff for our 3 years of toil is position, wealth and prestige – that is, joining the ‘elite’ of the world’s most powerful society – well then, it’s clearly a Me vs. The World proposition (how many elites can there be, after all?).
Bring on the cost-benefit analysis (and another round for the house).
-- LeslieHannay - 01 Feb 2009 | | \ No newline at end of file |
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